Red verus (plausibly hot) Pink

More fireside chats with Red. Our last conversation was way too long for me to post in its entirety so I'll just share highlights.

Red: soooo....let´s just go through our final four decisions...
Red: don´t type for like a minute, so this can kind of be like a little table
Red: YES GOD, YES BELIEVE = win, and maybe some losses...to be decided later
Red: YES GOD, NO BELIEVE = major loss
Red: NO GOD, YES BELIEVE = win, not much possibility for loss
Red: NO GOD, NO BELIEVE = neither one
Red: you´ll notice that the only wins in life are really with the believing
BP: Yes, but I disagree with your little table.
BP: Might I counter with one of my own?
Red: because not believing either hurts you majorly or doesn´t really get you anywhere in the long run
Red: fancy that...go ahead
BP: Yay.
BP: Danke.
BP: Okay
BP: 1) There is a god and you choose to believe. There's a very large statistical improbability that you'll choose the right one. Getting up to heaven and having to explain to allah that you could have SWORN jesus was god would seem pretty foolish. Same with any of the other religions. So the odds are not in your favor to choose one, thus highly probable major loss.
Red: website: http://exodusyouth.net/youth/index.html
BP: Ah!
Red: go on
BP: You ruined my table!
BP: LOL
BP: Oh well.
Red: SORRY!!! my bad!
Red: copy and paste
BP: 2) There is a god and you choose not to believe. If you don't believe in god, you live by your own sense of right and wrong. You live your life to the fullest you can. When you die, you can tell god that you did many good things and led a virtuous life. Regardless of what god it is, you're guaranteed to be well accepted. Now, you might say, "Ah, but what if I think murder is right?" The fact that you're asking that question proves that you don't think it's right so the question is irrelevant.
BP: 3) There is no god and you choose to believe. You waste an hour each week at the service of your choice. Additionally, all prayers outside of church are just a waste of time that make you feel better about your inability to help someone else or even yourself. You also engage in futile debates with other people about the existence of god. Not just god, but your god (who, remember, in this situation, doesn't even exist.) You die and you've lived a wasted life dedicated to a non-existant being.
BP: 4) There is no god and you acknowledge that by not believing. You live a good, virtuous life (again, atheism is not a lack of virtue as you CLEARLY have very well definied ideas about what is right and wrong.) You enjoy life without the threat of hell for your actions, without the futile prayers, without the invisible friend everyone else has. You realize that you and your friends and family exist and that together you can help each otehr through anything because after all it's not some wrathful god causing tragedies like Katrina. It's just the nature of the world to be indifferent to humanity. Humanity however, is not indifferent. It's written in our genes to help and care for each other. So basically, evil exists, but you don't blame more powerful malevolent force (or vengeful god). More imporantantly you realize you have the strength inside you or with your friends to live a wholesome, fulfilling life.

...

Red: When you die, you can tell god that you did many good things and led a virtuous life. Regardless of what god it is, you're guaranteed to be well accepted.
Red: NOT NOT NOT TRUE
Red: in almost any religion i can name
Red: the bible CLEARLY states that works are NOT what save you
BP: WAIT
BP: Hold on.
BP: That's not "any religion you can name". That's any christian religion you can name.

...

[regarding good works in the bible (we got REALLY sidetracked in trying to prove point 2 on my table)]
BP: Let's assume you're right and good works aren't necessary.
Red: ...
BP: Why not just try to break all 10 commandments? As many times as you can? In a single day?
Red: because that´s not really accepting the word of God. as i said before, there´s believing and accepting. Both are necessarry.
BP: Is god such a prick that he's mandate you NOT do certain things but enough of a pussy that he'll let anyone in heaven so long as they worship him?
Red: or maybe God is such a person that actually gave us the laws to protect ourselves
Red: he really doesn´t want Satan to ruin our lives, as we so often let happen
BP: Okay, but the beatitudes are a PROACTIVE way of protecting ourselves.
BP: It's communal protection of each other.
BP: Why aren't those necessary?
Red: good point!
BP: I think Satan's ruining your life if you're not jacking off to porn because that's a sin, but you're not helping the sick and dying.
BP: Because you don't NEED to.
Red: really, you´ve got me stumped

...

[much much later, I got tired and cranky and just decided to have some fun]
Red: but i was right when i asked, ´you just don´t believe in him, so you don´t care if you bash him, right?´
BP: No you weren't.
BP: I'm not bashing anyone.
Red: !?!?!?!?
BP: That's as stupid as saying I bashed the tooth fairy.
Red: even if they´re not real, you can bask them
BP: No you can't.
Red: i hate santa claus. he´s fat.
BP: You're bashing nobody.
Red: i would say that´s bashing him.
Red: ok, fine
Red: let me rephrase, then
BP: Do.
Red: you don´t believe in God, so you feel that you can say anything you want about God, since you believe that he doesn´t
BP: Nope.
BP: That statement still presupposes his existence.
BP: I don't believe in
Red: one more try, then
Red: you don´t believe in God, so you feel that you can say anything you want about God (real or fake), since you believe that he doesn´t exist?
BP: Strike three.
BP: I'd say it something like "There is no god, but I realize you live in a fantasy land where donkeys can talk and children get mauled by bears for mocking a bald men and I have no qualms about pointing out every fallacy and impossibility inherent in that fictional world."

...

[after I asked him why he hates science]
Red: i don´t HATE science and logical conclusions just because I disagree

...

BP: We should always strive to know and understand.
Red: are you sure?
Red: some would differ
Red: curiosity killed the cat
BP: If you honestly believed we'll never know and understand the world we wouldn't be having thie conversation.
BP: Now you're saying we shouldn't ever ask questions.
BP: You should stop now.
Red: no
BP: Before you sound really stupid.